BUDGET COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
7 FEBRUARY 2025
Chair Commissioner Matt Rubelsky opened the meeting asking Commissioner Roger Reedy to offer a prayer and lead the pledge. The minutes of 14 January 2025 were moved for approval by Commissioner Evan Baddour, seconded by Commissioner Matthew Hopkins, and were approved unanimously. The Chair then gave instructions on how the meeting would be conducted, e.g., public wishing to speak should sign up and would be given five minutes after recognition by the Chair. The Chair further described the committee itself, being seven people one from each Giles County district, and he noted that only after a recommendation today was forwarded to the full commission would a final decision on a possible wheel tax be made. County Executive (CE) Graham Stowe then described what would happen if the final decision at the full commission meeting resulted in beginning the wheel tax process. To actually impose a wheel tax a resolution must be presented two times, pass two times, over two successive months. If need a public meeting the public has 30 days to show their support, and then done by 10% of voters in the last gubernatorial election, can then sign a petition and send to a referendum. The Chair then said he was changing the agenda to allow the public to speak first.
Public Speakers:
Former Commissioner Stoney Jackson read from T.C.A. § 5-8-102. He noted that the code reads (1) by passage of a resolution by a two-thirds vote of the county legislative body at two consecutive regular county legislative body meetings; (2) by passage of a resolution by the county legislative body by a regular majority with approval by referendum provided for in the resolution; and (3) by private act. He further noted that if done by 2/3 vote it becomes law. The Chair said the committee would seek clarification. The CE noted his remarks had been in keeping with the County Attorney’s and CTAS advice.
Harold Young said he had posted some wrong information on social media. He discussed his property taxes increasing and how that funding has not helped with his road situation. He has little fire protection he stated; his child is in private schools, and has seen very little police protection. He said he needs to understand how his taxes are being used.
James Hardy said his initial opposition is to the wheel tax. He discussed the county’s wealthy vs poor, and suggested the tax be applied to only one vehicle and perhaps consider the valuation of the vehicle. He stated he knows the county has to raise revenues, he just asked that they give full consideration before doing.
Mary Cox stated she is opposed to the tax. She mentioned the elderly who live on fixed income. She suggested that if the courthouse needs repairs raise fines.
Elgin Lirette commented that taxes are forever and they increase. He questioned if the tax would have a cut off date and if everything with wheels or just vehicles. He also suggested by putting beer back on the ballot could bring in considerable revenue.
Marlon Cooper said he has family across several county districts and everybody he talks to opposes a wheel tax.
Cheryl Albury talked to her experience e.g. with the RFD and disabled and they cannot afford another tax. She also discussed some of the Giles County subsidized apartments having residents with Alabama tags. She said they would not be paying a wheel tax. She said she has to cut her own budget when something new comes up and she discussed potential cuts to the EMS building.
Scott Bailey suggested grant funding be designated for wheel tax and that there be a sunshine time for the tax. He further suggested that you do the minimum now and delay some of it.
Chris Morgan (an EMS employee but speaking as a citizen) suggested that individuals come to the building to note the disrepair. He noted that doing only the minimum is what has got us to this situation – a big problem. He also said a debt free county is not progressing.
Leah Bailey commented on the county website and that she would like to have a more detailed look where the tax dollars are going. She said she would like to do minimum.
The Chair then commented that before serving 2 ½ years as a commissioner he would have opposed any new taxes, but now he has a lot of respect for the past commissioners. He stated his main job is the budget, and that you have to find other avenues in your own life. Commissioner Terry Jones said since this has been about discussion and only seven are going to vote today, he would like to move back to the original agenda. He noted this will still go to the full commission. A motion to move back to the original agenda was made by Commissioner Evan Baddour, seconded by Commissioner James Lathrop, and was approved with a 6 – 1 vote with the Chair voting no.
The CE said wheel tax cannot be on valuation. He noted some counties do provide exception for 100% disabled veterans but he noted that the administration of varying exceptions would be extremely difficult and to do many exceptions would defeat the original purpose. He said the county had started with projects needed and the schools were the first priority and now a new ambulance building and repair to the courthouse (upgrade for security) are needed. In responding to comments on bids, he said the county is not there yet, but the engineering service will provide the county with a cost projection. The CE mentioned the various meetings about the design of the ambulance and courthouse and where there had been lots of give and take, e.g., on the HVAC and how that is affected by new windows or not. He said there are two phases for the courthouse and that the total cost for the ambulance and the courthouse is respectively $10M and $15M. The chair noted that this meeting is to explore a wheel tax and Commissioner David Wamble said before having a discussion how much would be needed to serve a bond debt while considering there are 29,500 vehicles in Giles County and with a bond for $25M or $10M or $20M. Financial Manager (FM) Beth Moore – Sumners said on $20M, and an estimate only would be about $1.44M, and with a $30 wheel tax would give $1.5M. She mentioned however the increased administrative cost being 5% or higher with that being negotiable. Commissioner Terry Jones said with $25M needed a wheel tax of $50 may not be enough with the FM noting debt service cost of $1.8M for a $25M bond. She did note that for the next FY $750K from the TACN funds would be available to offset some of that debt. Commissioner Matthew Hopkins said in asking to add a tax, he doesn’t want one, but you are supposed to maintain our county assets, so what’s left to cut. The courthouse needs to be done but to raise court cost is not legal. Commissioner Gayle Jones said when we set the priority list we didn’t do water, and she considered the cost estimate for the ambulance to be way over. She suggested we could slow walk the courthouse. Commissioner Evan Baddour said on all the emails he had received they recommended the courthouse be repaired. He noted the arches in the courthouse are cracking, a serious foundation issue. He said the county needs to move forward on Phase I for the courthouse. He said a detailed description on exemptions, for example trailers or farm vehicles is needed. He noted that Giles is the only county among surrounding counties that doesn’t have a wheel tax. He mentioned his duty as commissioner is to manage the county’s budget including quality of life issues (noting it is a 15-minute drive from town to Minor Hill for the ambulance). He further stated the ambulance’s need for a Category IV structure which is more costly. He didn’t want to leave the perspective that the county is not trying to reduce cost. The Chair noted that when bids come in, they could be lower after due consideration. Commissioner Terry Jones said we can no longer kick down the road the necessary repairs or rebuild. He noted that the schools paid for the repairs from the general fund and that Bridgeforth will need a bond. He said he is against this tax. He considered the TACN $750K plus revenue coming in that the county would serve the courthouse. He noted that he represents all the county. The FM noted the schools used their funds but that Bridgeforth will need a bond and the schools will also serve that bond. The schools’ funds come from the state, from a portion of the property taxes and the sales tax equalization recently enacted. The FM in answering Commissioner Judy Pruett’s question on split of all taxes to the schools answered that by state $10M, by property tax $6M and the county gets the majority of the property tax. Commissioner James Lathrop said the county will do the most essential first, and that in the last 115 years essentially nothing was done. The county is looking at ways to cut and the citizen’s input is welcome. As for the property tax increase that did not go up, the increase represented the evaluation of your property which went up while the tax rate stayed the same. Can a wheel tax be repealed – he answered yes. Commissioner David Wamble asked the FM how long the TACN funding lasts before it is paid out and if we could cover the ambulance department‘s debt service and maybe focus on one without raising taxes. The FM said as long as the sales tax stays up. The FM also noted that in using the TACN funding reduced the county’s flexibility if other higher priority needs surface. Commissioner Roger Reedy noted that his calls say they would rather have a wheel tax that a property tax increase. He noted it has been 22 years for a tax increase and that was for the schools, and when that enrollment dropped, the increase came back to the county. Commissioner Matthew Hopkins spoke to the breakdown of other counties and noted that Giles County is the lowest in terms of taxes and that he would prefer the wheel tax over a property tax increase. The FM on the handout by county on taxes used a base line of $204K for property value and two vehicles. Giles County’s median income also varied with five surrounding counties having higher income. Commissioner Terry Jones said so many can’t afford a wheel tax and people are not for it. Commissioner Evan Baddour noted that the county budget is available for review; that you can’t bind future commissioners; and would like to focus on one project or two projects. He noted the poor living conditions at the ambulance building with the sewer backing up into the living quarters. He further noted the ambulances barely fit in the current bays and he considers finding solutions should override the fear of getting reelected. Commissioner Gayle Jones discussed original cost estimates and decreased current cost estimates, 8 bays for the ambulances being overkill and not addressing outlying towns within Giles County. Tommy Hyatt was asked about trends for more buildings and he said increasing new homes means more revenue. He also addressed the $200K appraisal from past years and four years later is $400K, still keeping same tax rate. Commissioner Roger Reedy noted that many of the courthouse repairs are intertwined e.g., window and HVAC, but skipping the fire suppression repair which means the courthouse is vulnerable to fire; noting window air conditions that often drip and cause damage; they dropped a second elevator (for inmates) and the new costly entryway, but he noted it is difficult to see what else could be cut. The Chair noted the ambulance is now down to $8M, but still a lot. Commissioner Shelly Goolsby noted that every year we wait, the prices increase. She said she would want an end date, although new commissioners could break that decision. She suggested citizens show up based on budget calendar. Commissioner Erin Curry said this started in 2019 when the Loudon courthouse burned, and she is in favor of the Phase 1 repair to the courthouse to keep it standing. She noted you could not build the same courthouse back. She also mentioned the advantages of ambulance personnel that are happy, well rested and get out in a hurry. And she agreed with Commissioner Baddour about concerns about reelection. Commissioner David Wamble mentioned how difficult it would be to get 2/3 vote at full commission and to consider moving forward with one project with funding currently available. A motion by Commissioner James Lathrop, seconded by the Chair to ask for the question was approved. A motion by Commissioner Evan Baddour, seconded by Commissioner James Lathrop, was made to recommend to the full commission a $50 wheel tax for all motorized vehicles, with the exception of 100% disabled veterans was made and was approved 4 -3 (with Commissioners voting no Terry Jones, Matthew Hopkins, Tim Risner) after the public was allowed to speak
Public Speakers:
Marlon Cooper said people can’t afford more taxes, sometimes it’s health vs vehicles. He also noted he and many others were not in the $60K income bracket.
Harold Young mentioned his road is not maintained. If ambulance can’t get in another ambulance building won’t help him. He mentioned a fall where he was unconscious for a period of time and said perhaps other things could use grant funding or some would help volunteering.
Scott Bailey said he has to budget his own dollars and he can’t create revenue so use dollars available and maybe do 1/2; and also, may be use volunteer help.
Shay Simmons said find other ways to create revenue, perhaps bring in other counties. She suggested a Renaissance fair would be a good start. She stated she would lose her car over wheel tax.
Leah Bailey stated she needed to understand the budget better and that needs more transparency. She said many drive out of county and you need to figure out why leaving county. The FM said if anybody has questions on where their dollars go, she and her staff are available for those discussions.
Cheryl Albury said she doesn’t like but she has respect for the veterans and approves them as an exception to the wheel tax.
The Chair then moved to Budget Amendments and said the public was welcome to stay if they so desired. Also, Commissioner Joseph Sutton set in for Commissioner Evan Baddour who had to leave. A motion to approve the budget amendments was made by Commissioner Matthew Hopkins, seconded by Commissioner Shelly Goolsby, and was approved unanimously. The amendments addressed Chancery court salaries, sheriff’s department grant, sheriff’s department SRO supplement, and county buildings court security grant, Ambulance in service/staff development, autopsies which have increased, and Agri Park for tractor repairs. Commissioner Erin Curry asked about Agri Park leaks, with the CE noting to replace existing PVC pipes would be $2K with labor being done inhouse. If not additional cost for labor.
The County’s budget calendar was provided in a handout and per the FM is similar to last years timing. She mentioned the school Board raise was added. She discussed the timelines required for the budget to be completed for the 25-26 period and that the dates shown on the calendar are backed up from that date. A motion to approve was made by Commissioner Matthew Hopkins, seconded by Commissioner Shelly Goolsby, and was approved unanimously. Commissioner Terry Jones noted that the Veterans Administration will postpone asking for funding for one year.
Unfinished business – The Ag Park repair to existing tractor was discussed with a new tractor estimated cost being $37K. Commissioner Terry Jones said the tractor would have to be repaired if want to sell or hopefully to keep. Commissioner James Lathrop recommended starting a budget for future replacement. The Chair mentioned Bennie Birdsong’s decision to retire, and with Kevin Rose’s retiring there would be no voting rights in place. He also noted the county will have to pay more since Bennie’s salary is around $5K per year but he works FT six days a week or more. Commissioner James Lathrop asked if anybody was interested with the CE saying he would be doing a job description. He also mentioned doing bushhogging costs around $25K per year and the county needs to come up with a compensation plan. Commissioner Terry Jones mentioned that Bennie plans to stay involved because of his interest in the walking trail’s completion and that last May we approved $250 to do clean up. He suggested those be combined into the job description. Sheriff Purvis said he has some guys to do some of the work and would be glad to help. Commissioner Joseph Sutton asked about timing with the CE noting end of March for Bennie’s retirement. Commissioner Joyce Woodard reminded all of an upcoming highway department meeting, with the FM saying if the highway committee approves an amendment, is it OK with this budget committee to send to the full commission. Several commissioners voiced their approval. Commissioner Matthew Hopkins asked about cost of a replacement at Ag Park with the CE saying approximately $2 a month. Commissioner Shelly Goolsby said she though we would be using inmates with the CE saying the Ag Park needs a director. The Chair asked if the paper would do a write up and thanks for volunteers. Commissioner Gayle Jones asked if there were any grants to keeping the gates open with the CE stating none right now. Commissioner Joyce Woodard suggested reviewing the city’s job description for their Parks & Recreation. Sheriff Purvis noted that he could not guarantee 100% for individual days availability. Commissioner Terry Jones suggested talking to Pulaski Mayor JJ Brindley and let the city take over. The CE said he could ask
A motion by Commissioner Mathew Hopkins, seconded by Commissioner James Lathrop, was made to adjourn. Motion approved unanimously.
ATTENDEES: Members of the committee – Chair Commissioner Matt Rubelsky and other commissioners Evan Baddour, Matthew Hopkins, James Lathrop, Terry Jones, Shelly Goolsby, and Tim Risner (for David Adams absent)/ Other commissioners in attendance Joseph Sutton, Erin Curry, Brad Butler, Gayle Jones, David Wamble, Carman Brown, Rose Brown, Judy Pruett, Annelle Guthrie, Tracy Wilburn, Roger Reedy/ Others in attendance County Executive Graham Stowe, Financial Manager and staff Beth Moore-Sumners and Shana Woodard, Trustee Tony Risner, Property Assessor Tommy Hyatt, EMS Director Bill Myers, Other EMS Willow Chavez, Sheriff Joe Purvis/ members of the Public approximately 30 (Speakers – Elgin Lirette, Stoney Jackson, James Hardy, Mary Cox, Marlon Cooper, Harold Young, Shay Simmons, Cheryl Albury, Scott Bailey, Leah Bailey, Chris Morgan)
